The Dismantling Doctrine Podcast

If you've been following the storyline of what's happening to Project 2025, The Heritage Foundation, and Trump's presidential campaign, then you'll be familiar with some of what Chris Shelton and I discuss in this episode.
There have been a number of important developments in this ongoing narrative, as Project 2025 began to be increasingly exposed by shows just like this one as well as on the mainstream media. Since then, not only has Trump attempted to deny and distance himself from it--as well as The Heritage Foundation--some other players have quietly stepped into the breach with a newly-proposed "presidential transition project."
Not only do we discuss this new twist, we delve into the cult psychology and tactics used by such shadowy groups, but also of Trump himself, as he controls, manipulates, and influences his ultra-loyal MAGA cult base.
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How many of us have left religious beliefs behind, but have not entertained the idea that we might be able to find an aspect of spirituality that is truly meaningful?
For those of us who've left controlling religions, it can be incredibly difficult even to entertain the notion that there might even be any aspect of spirituality that is appealing to us. But we might be closing ourselves off to deeper meaning and exploration if we refuse to acknowledge that there just might be something out there.
Author Larry Jordan was a successful businessman who turned his back on the American dream, embracing service to others and in the process read over 1,000 books researching and exploring philosophy, religion, mysticism, and more. In the process he discovered something that truly changed his life--find out more in this fascinating interview!
Find Larry's book The Way: Meaningful Spirituality for a Modern World here on Amazon.
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For the first time ever, my show has been hijacked!
My very good friend Tim Sledge, who is the editor and publisher of my new book, Not So Shiny Not So Happy People: How Bill Gothard, Church, and Family Taught Me Christianity Doesn't Work interviewed me recently about my book.
Aside from me, there is nobody else on Earth who knows more about my book, as we have been working closely on it for about a year now. Tim is not only intimately connected with the book, as a former evangelical pastor and ex-Christian himself, Tim resonates a great deal with my story.
I hope you enjoy this interview--and please, if you do buy a copy of my book on Amazon, do me a huge favor and leave a review! That helps greatly with the Amazon rankings.
Link to Not So Shiny Not So Happy People on Amazon
If the link doesn't work, on Amazon type in "Not So Shiny Not So Happy People Clint Heacock" and it will quickly locate the book.
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I'm excited to announce that my new book, Not So Shiny Not So Happy People: How Bill Gothard, Church, and Family Taught Me Christianity Doesn't Work is now available as of today!!
The book is available as a paperback, Kindle EBook, and Audible Virtual Voice versions now.
In this special episode, I'm reading the Preface chapter to the book, which is called "The Terror of an Empty House." I hope that not only do you enjoy this chapter, but that it prompts you to go out and buy the book.
After you've read it, please leave a review on Amazon, which greatly helps with the book's rankings--and share the book with anyone who you think will resonate with its message.
Here's the link on Amazon to Not So Shiny Not So Happy People.
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For those of us who came out of fundamentalist Christianity, what happens when things go badly wrong in our lives? Do you have the temptation to pray, read the Bible, seek out a wise Christian counselor to discover answers for why this is happening to you?
Within evangelicalism, the problem of suffering is a huge issue. There always has to be "an answer" as to why God allows--or even causes--bad things to happen to us. There must be a reason!
My good friend Dean Krosecz and I break down this very topic after Dean shares about the traumatic experiences he's gone through in the last few years. Where was "God" in all of it? And can you create peace in the midst of suffering, alone without a supposedly benevolent being to lean on for support?
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A few months ago I caught up with author Tia Levings to discuss her new book, A Well-Trained Wife: My Escape from Christian Patriarchy. Tia is perhaps best known for her viral TikTok video, "Fundy Baby Voice"--and she knows what she's talking about.
A product of the Bill Gothard "cult without walls," Tia was raised in the "modesty culture" and taught what it meant to be a "well-trained wife"--the so-called tradwife tradition so familiar to the Christian patriarchy and Quiverfull cultures.
But after experiencing severe cognitive dissonance when comparing how she was raised versus how she was expected to raise her own children, Tia began to question--and ultimately escaped--this cult-like environment.
Tia's Book Now Available on Amazon!
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Months ago I had a great conversation with author and adrenaline junkie, Ryan George. Following on in the trend of interviewing more progressive Christians--after chatting with Keith Giles recently--this seemed like a great time to drop this episode.
Although he's been able to reclaim a version of Christianity for himself, Ryan and I found that we have a lot in common when comparing our upbringings within Christianity. Ryan grew up in an IFB (Independent Fundamental Baptist) tradition with a dad who was a pastor, and was also involved in the Bill Gothard IBLP cult.
After suffering spiritual abuse and other forms of religious trauma, and walking away from the faith and church for years, how did Ryan recover his faith? Find out more in this great conversation!
Check out Ryan's site for more information on his book and his life!
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This week's conversation features author, podcaster, and "freelance theologian" Keith Giles, who--although definitely no evangelical Christian--has moved past even being a progressive Christian.
What does that make him? I don't know exactly, but it does make for a fascinating conversation with someone who has deconstructed his former fundamentalist beliefs. Keith is also a scholar, which makes the conversation about his new book The Quantum Sayings of Jesus a fascinating one.
Which Jesus? Which gospel? And how does the Gospel of Thomas fit into that whole discussion? As a very progressive Christian, Keith has some great insights on the state of evangelicalism today, Christian nationalism and more.
Check out Keith's blog on Patheos for more information!
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This week's episode features a fascinating conversation with Marissa Hackett, who grew up in a right-wing cult started by controversial radio host, Roy Masters. Originally starting out in the early 1960s, Masters spread his message nationwide through his radio show, tapes, and book sales.
Based originally out of Los Angeles, Masters bought a ranch near Grants Pass, Oregon, in 1979--and urged his followers to move there. Along with connections to survivalists, conspiracy theories, and far-right political ideas, Masters acted as a form of messianic cult leader.
He performed exorcisms, taught that women are subordinate to men, and that all problems in a family are the fault of the mother. Thus, Marissa grew up in a controlling environment combined with a strong message behind it...and somehow, she survived and is doing well today.
Connect with Marissa on her "Breaking the Cycle" Substack.
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In this conversation with journalist and author Sarah McCammon, we discuss her book that just came out in March, called The Exvangelicals: Loving, Living, and Leaving the White Evangelical Church.
Not only does Sarah do a masterful job of explaining why so many "exvangelicals" have left the white evangelical church behind, she shares her own story of growing up evangelical, deconstructing, and ultimately walking away from her childhood faith.
Along the way, Sarah's work blends diligent research with authentic examples of why people like her, and so many others, have simply had enough--for whatever reason--and couldn't deal with the cognitive dissonance, the "tension points" in their belief system, or whatever it was that led them to make the difficult decision to abandon their cherished belief system.
Find Sarah's book here on Amazon!
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