The Dismantling Doctrine Podcast

Spiritual Bypassing: How Religion Masks Grief, Trauma, and Hard Emotions (with Dr Terri Daniel)

This conversation features a return appearance by Dr. Terri Daniel of the Ask Dr. Death podcast. We discuss spiritual bypassing — a psychological phenomenon, originally coined by Buddhist teacher and psychotherapist John Welwood in the 1980s, which describes the use of spiritual or religious beliefs as a defense mechanism to avoid dealing with painful emotions, grief, trauma, and loss. Dr. Daniel draws from her academic research, as well as her experience as a hospice chaplain, offering case studies and clinical definitions to illuminate how people use religion to sidestep the hard work of emotional healing.
Out conversation is wide-ranging and candid, touching on the Hebrew Bible's "reward-and-punishment" theology, the Book of Job, cognitive dissonance in faith communities, and the concept of disenfranchised grief — the inability to mourn openly within a religious community when the deceased falls outside its moral framework.
We both share personal anecdotes, including Clint's recent retinal detachment surgery and Terri's job loss, as real-world examples of resilience without divine intervention. The episode closes with a plug for an upcoming online symposium on spiritual bypassing, scheduled for July 25th, featuring six presenters including grief counselors, a Buddhist teacher, and researchers in trauma and religious deconstruction.
Contact Terri at https://deathgriefandbelief.com/
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Not In My Town! Life in Doug Wilson's Moscow (with Sarah Bader)

After speaking recently with Peter Bell for the last podcast, I'm bringing you a bonus episode: a conversation Sarah Bader, co-host of the Sons of Patriarchy podcast and a longtime Moscow, Idaho resident.
We talk about what everyday life is like under the influence of Pastor Doug Wilson and his Christ Church. Sarah shares how she joined Peter after a failed NPR project, and how growing up in Moscow since 1998 gave her a frontline view of how Doug Wilson has systematically built a religious and cultural empire in the town. The conversation covers Wilson's dominionist agenda, his ties to the American Redoubt movement, Christian nationalism, and his growing national influence through figures like "Secretary of War" Pete Hegseth.
The second half of the interview delves into specific scandals Wilson has survived, most notably the Steven Sitler child abuse case, where Wilson wrote letters of leniency to the court and later presided over Sitler's wedding despite his crimes.
We also discuss the cult-like hallmarks of Wilson's Christ "Kirk"--loaded language, self-ordained leadership, a self-contained publishing and education empire, and a culture of fear and bullying that has left local businesses, city officials, and even state institutions reluctant to challenge Wilson. Sarah reflects on the personal toll of living within 500 yards of Wilson's campus while fighting him publicly, expressing uncertainty about whether the battle is being won, but affirming her commitment to speaking out as long as she can.
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Pete Hegseth and Doug Wilson: Patriarchy, Power, and Politics (with Peter Bell of the Sons of Patriarchy)

In this episode, I welcome Peter Bell from the Sons of Patriarchy podcast for a deep dive into the world of Doug Wilson. He's a self-ordained pastor from Moscow, Idaho who has spent decades building a network of Christian nationalist influence.
Together we trace Wilson's origins, his controversial "Southern Slavery As It Was" pamphlet, his founding of the CREC denomination and the Association of Classical Christian Schools (ACCS), and how his fringe ideas gradually moved into the mainstream — culminating in his recent sermon at the Pentagon.
The conversation then turns to Pete Hegseth, now U.S. Secretary of Defense (or War), and the web of connections linking him to Wilson's world through classical Christian education and the ACCS, Fox News, Christian nationalism, and the fringe CREC denomination.
Both of us, as seminary-trained theologians, share deep concern about a man with limited theological education wielding militaristic, crusader-inspired religious rhetoric--all the while overseeing the world's most powerful military engaged in an illegal war against Iran.
We argue that the through line--traced from R.J. Rushdoony's Christian Reconstructionism to Doug Wilson to Pete Hegseth--represents a genuinely dangerous convergence of weaponized theology, patriarchy, and political power.
For more information on Doug Wilson, check out this playlist of episodes I did on him a few years ago.
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Email: dismantlingdoctrine@gmail.com

I Belong To me: Recovery And Hope After Religious Trauma (with Tia Levings)

This week, I had the pleasure to interview returning guest Tia Levings about her new book I Belong To Me: A Survivor's Guide to Recovery and Hope After Religious Trauma. Tia explains that while her first memoir A Well-Trained Wife told the story of escaping an abusive marriage rooted in Christian patriarchy--and the teachings of figures like Bill Gothard and James Dobson--this new book is a self-help guide chronicling how she rebuilt herself over a decade of healing.
We also explore the broader reach of Christian nationalism, including Doug Wilson's growing political influence through figures like Pete Hegseth, and how fundamentalist movements groom people for obedience and abuse through purity culture, corporal punishment, and high-control dynamics.
Tia shares practical insights from her recovery journey, including EMDR, internal family systems therapy, somatic work, and grounding techniques. She emphasizes treating triggers as information rather than threats, the importance of tending to the "aftermath of shock" before making major life decisions, and how unhealed trauma can lead to "cult hopping" into new controlling relationships. She describes herself as "spiritually private," rejecting labels in favor of fluidity and self-discovery.
The book is written for religious trauma survivors but has resonated widely with anyone leaving high-control environments. Tia is currently working on a third book called How to Leave Anything.
Find Tia's book and also her writings on her site here!
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Revisiting "The Myth of Good Christian Parenting" (with Marissa Burt & Kelsey McGinnis)

For those who missed our December 2025 DDP Zoom call, this is it!
I was able to reconnect with authors Kelsey McGinnis and Marissa Burt about their book The Myth of Good Christian Parenting. The conversation centers on Doug Wilson, a controversial Moscow, Idaho pastor who promotes Christian nationalism and authoritarian parenting-- including advocating spanking "reigns of terror" to guarantee children's "cheerful obedience."
We then extend that out to include the broader ecosystem of figures like Bill Gothard and James Dobson, major Christian influencers who built empires promising that formulaic Christian, "biblically-based parenting" guarantees godly outcomes.
We explore how these harmful ideologies are cyclical--repackaged by new evangelical influencers for each generation. Using fresh aesthetics and modern platforms, the core pattern remains: exploit parental fears, promise a formula based on their interpretation of the Bible, and then blame "user error" when it fails.
We also connect all of this to the evangelical purity culture, the "stay-at-home daughter" movement, and today's social media influencers pushing increasingly extreme positions. We also note that even movements like Gothard's IBLP had retention rates as low as 3% — yet somehow, the same ideas keep getting recycled for a new generation of impressionable Christians attempting to pattern both their marriages and child-rearing practices on what turns out to be deeply flawed theology.
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Find My Book Not So Shiny, Not So Happy People here on Amazon.
Email me: dismantlingdoctrine@gmail.com

Two Ex-Pastors Deconstructing Christianity Together (with Timmy Joe Gibson)

This week, I welcome new friend Timmy Joe Gibson for a deep dive into our parallel journeys: from passionate Christian ministry to atheism. Both former pastors, we share our experiences in faith: me as a Bible college teacher and PhD scholar who spent over 20 years in ministry across the US and UK, and Timmy as a charismatic pastor who grew his church from 10 people in his living room to 300 members.
We discuss our theological education at institutions like Rama Bible Training Center and Western Seminary, our involvement in word-of-faith movements and dominion theology, and the gradual "death by a thousand cuts" that led us to question--and ultimately abandon-- everything we once believed, preached, and taught to so many others so passionately.
Our conversation explores how deeper biblical scholarship paradoxically led us away from fundamentalism, as we touch on topics like the authorship of the Gospels, the problem of slavery in scripture, conspiracy theory mindsets in Christianity, and the Satanic Panic of the 1980s.
Both of us reflect on what we've salvaged from our past. My public speaking skills now serve me as a teacher and builder, while Timmy has built a successful wedding officiant business in Kansas City. We also candidly discuss how we're now happier as atheists than we ever were as believers, focusing our energy on helping others navigate the deconstruction process, rather than engaging in angry debates with those still in the faith.
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Email me: dismantlingdoctrine@gmail.com

Part 1: A Conversation with Nick P from The Autistic Pod

This is a two-part podcast conversation between me and Nick from The Autistic Pod. To hear Part 2--where he interviews me--you'll have to head over to his platform to catch it.
Our discussion begins by discussing Nick's experiences with ADHD and autism, exploring how neurodivergence affects relationships, communication, and daily life. Nick shares his journey of self-diagnosis at age 42 after watching "Love on the Spectrum," and discusses the concept of "masking" - the exhausting practice of hiding one's authentic self to fit neurotypical expectations. He opens up about experiencing severe depression, the importance of honesty as a core value, and how his racing thoughts (three times more than neurotypical people) create both challenges and unique perspectives.
The conversation then delves into Nick's "Nine Rules for Life," which include principles like personal growth, accountability, avoiding toxic people, and living authentically. Both of us share relatable experiences about relationships, with Nick discussing his fiancée's C-PTSD and how they navigate their neurodivergent partnership, while I reflect on my past relationship challenges with someone likely on the spectrum.
Nick and I bonded over shared values around honesty, heavy metal music, and the struggle to balance directness with social expectations. Nick helps us to emphasize the importance of understanding neurodivergence, respecting different ways of processing the world, and finding communities that accept you for who you truly are.
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Yes, We WERE Teenage Fundamentalists! (with Brian & Troy from IWATF)

I had a great opportunity to interview Brian and Troy from the now-retired "I Was a Teenage Fundamentalist" podcast. They discuss why they ended their successful podcast after five years, with both hosts explaining they felt exhausted and had covered what they wanted to say about leaving evangelical Christianity.
The conversation explores their personal journeys of deconstructing their faith, including Troy's pivotal moment during a Buddhist meditation retreat and Brian's gradual realization over many years that the beliefs no longer held up.
Our discussion delves into several major topics including the Hillsong Church scandals in Australia, particularly Brian Houston's cover-up of his father Frank Houston's pedophilia, and the broader issues of abuse within patriarchal religious structures.
They also discuss their eye-opening episode about Keith Green and Last Days Ministries, which revealed cult-like practices that shattered their last remaining positive associations with evangelical Christianity.
The conversation concludes with reflections on rebuilding life after leaving religion, emphasizing the importance of finding new communities, being patient with yourself, and accepting that life after faith won't have the same certainty that religion once provided.
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Money, Lies, and God: The Movement to Destroy American Democracy (with Katherine Stewart)

For the inaugural episode of 2026, I reached out to returning guest Katherine Stewart, author of a 2025 book entitled Money, Lies, and God: Inside the Movement to Destroy American Democracy.
Stewart, an investigative journalist who has tracked the religious right for 17 years, argues that Christian nationalism has evolved from a fringe movement into a powerful political force waging war against democracy itself—targeting rational governance, the rule of law, and constitutional checks and balances. She traces its rise through decades of infrastructure building, massive dark money from billionaires, and the growing influence of charismatic Christianity and New Apostolic Reformation theology, which has enabled Trump's unprecedented corruption and authoritarian actions.
In her book, Stewart explores critical dimensions of this threat, including the split within the Catholic Church between progressive voices and ultra-wealthy conservatives funding hard-right messaging, groups like Moms for Liberty working to dismantle public education, and the disturbing connections between current Christian nationalist rhetoric and pro-slavery theology. She warns that while the movement claims to champion religious liberty, it actually seeks privilege for itself and suppression of dissent, threatening not only American democracy but exporting illiberalism globally.
You can reach Katherine Stewart through her website at katherinestewart.me or via email at goodnewskatherine@gmail.com.
Find a copy of Money, Lies, and God at this link on Amazon!
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Weaponizing Christian Zionism and Christian Nationalism (with Brandt Burleson)

The final episode of The Dismantling Doctrine Podcast features a conversation with Brandt Burleson out of Houston, TX, who tells a wild story...as an employee of the Israeli Consulate in Houston a few years ago, Brandt was tasked with being an "interfaith liaison" between the State of Israel and Christians.
Sounds innocuous enough, doesn't it?
But what Brandt discovered as he settled into the job was that essentially, the Consulate was running what amounted to a sophisticated psy-op targeting Christians of all theological stripes and traditions.
By weaponizing both Christian Zionism and Christian nationalism, appealing to the deeply baked-in nature of both within Christianity, the sophisticated operation began...and I'll let Brandt tell you the rest of the story in this episode!
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